LE COIN DES EGYPTIENS

autrement dit, parler de vos straigth,,de leur influence dans l'arabe actuel,l'ancien type, les lignées "Ansata"et leur predominance dans l'elevage allemand,poster des photos, etc.

Qui connait l'histoire d'Hanan, la fabuleuse jument du Dr Nagel?

Moi bien sûre ! .....mais là j'ai pas le temps.............

orient arabians a écrit:

Moi bien sûre ! .....mais là j'ai pas le temps.............

allez Michelle!!!

moi aussi mais si tu veus en savoire plus, tu peus lire le livre HANAN de Dr. Nagel en anglais. Mais je pense il ne faut pas de mots pour HANAN, c'était une jument unique, dans sa beautée, caractère, et ses produits!
Je t'en direr plus au prochain café
Arlette

Merci pour la photo, c'est toujours mieux d'avoir un visuel lorsque l'on parle de ces grands chevaux du passé.

Lorsqu'en 1967 le Dr Nagel de Katharinenhof stud est allé visiter El Zahraa il est tombé amoureux d'une petite pouliche de l'année, une jolie baie par Alaa el Din et Mona, et n'a eu de cesse de la ramener en Allemagne. Il y a des juments qui sont les pierres de touche d'un élevage comme Estopa sans qui Om El Arab ne serait pas , Hanan est celle de Katharinenhof. Le Dr Nagel a basé tout son élevage sur cette fabuleuse jument..




Hanan en 1984 à 17 ans

son fils Salaa el Dine (Ansata Halim Shah)

une autre photo d'Hanan



son fils le plus célèbre : Jamil (Madkour I)



sa fille Ghazala (Ghazal)

orient arabians a écrit:

Merci beaucoup pour ces quelques infos.

J'en profite pour signaler qu'il y aura une nouvelle conférence de l'ACAB où tous les amateurs pourront s'informer et trouver des réponses à leurs questions sur ces fabuleuses lignées. Nous ouvrirons un sujet dès que la date et le lieu seront fixés.
Il serait vraiment passionnant que les quelques éleveurs d'égyptiens qui ont de l'expérience comme vous "Orient", ou "Studer" puissent y participer pour apporter vos expériences historiques.

Il y aussi le trés bel étalon Asfour, en Australie, fils de Hanan, qui est le père entre autres de Simeon sadik.
Asfour:

Oui, c'est un super reproducteur que j'affectionne vraiment.

Asfour (Malik x Hanan)

moi, la particularité qui m'a vraiment sauté aux yeux chez Hanan,c'est son attache de queue, ce que tous ses produits ont hérité,pour moi, j'en suis désolé c'est un critere! ainsi que les yeux:P

et bien moi c'est son bout de devant , son épaule, sa sortie d'encolure. Son attache de rein??? sur les photos en couleur...bon ses yeux Mario je vois pas...

lol la façon de juger de la beauté d'un cheval ... l'attache de queue et l'oeil ... et entre?
J'avoue que je regarde plus un cheval sur des criteres de cheval de selle que comme je choisirais ma poupée barbie.
Apres, c'est une jolie jument, ces produits sont moins tappés en cheval de selle et plus showy par contre. C'est dommage selon moi.

fedaia a écrit:

lol la façon de juger de la beauté d'un cheval ... l'attache de queue et l'oeil ... et entre?
J'avoue que je regarde plus un cheval sur des criteres de cheval de selle que comme je choisirais ma poupée barbie.
Apres, c'est une jolie jument, ces produits sont moins tappés en cheval de selle et plus showy par contre. C'est dommage selon moi.

Tu peux me dire ce qui manque a Asfour pour qu'on considère que ce n'est pas un bon cheval de selle?
C'est énervant d'entendre toujours les mêmes divergences.
Mes étalons sont montes , et on connait tous plein d'autres poupes barbie
qui sont des excellents chevaux montes, avoir une superbe tête na jamais empêché un cheval d'être monte et cela est un plaisir pour les yeux!
du moins pour les miens.

fedaia a écrit:

lol la façon de juger de la beauté d'un cheval ... l'attache de queue et l'oeil ... et entre?
J'avoue que je regarde plus un cheval sur des criteres de cheval de selle que comme je choisirais ma poupée barbie.
Apres, c'est une jolie jument, ces produits sont moins tappés en cheval de selle et plus showy par contre. C'est dommage selon moi.

Hep,Mam'zelle,un critere, n'est pas un tout!!Vous seriez pas un clone de Karim l'idée fixe? Puis,si vous voulez parler clichés...; Il y d'autres post.Que ce soit une bonne jument, aucun doute, suffit de voir l'elevage allemand!et ailleurs!!

C'est une jument très charismatique, avec un très bon corps je trouve, j'adore son attache d'encolure, sa longeur d'encolure aussi et bien sur sa fabuleuse expression que l'on retrouve dans toute la famille...

Alors pour les 2 chevaux que l'on voit en entier ... Hannan a un dos bien soutenu, quoique très legerement long, et un leger decrochement au niveau de l'attache de rein, qui passerait presque inaperçu du fait qu'elle soit bien travaillée. Elle a beaucoup de points de force et a une secheresse dans le tissu interressante. J'avoue je me fous royalement du type, et plus que l'expression, je recherche l'expressivité, c'est-à-dire la façon dont un cheval exprime son caractere, ses humeurs, par ses allures, son port de tete, ses jeux, et toutes ses attitudes.

En ce qui concerne Asfour, le défaut d'attache de rein est visiblement plus marqué puisque le dos a l'air moins bien soutenu. D'autre part, les tissus sont moins secs et les points de force moins presents.

Quant à Jamil, même constat même si le défaut d'attache de rein a quasiment disparu. Beaucoup moins de points de force et de sécheresse de tissus, de trempe pour résumer.

Je ne dis pas que ce sont de mauvais chevaux, je dis juste qu'il y a une importante évolution dans le modèle, entre elle et ses produits. Et que je la préfère elle dans son physique à ses produits. Après les goûts et les couleurs, ça ne se discute pas. Apres si mon avis et mes goûts doivent concorder aux vôtres, bah là c'est pas gagné.

J'ai été "éduquée" par des éleveurs des années 70, dans l'idée que l'évolution de la race arabe était néfaste à celle-ci. J'ai mes idées et je les exprime, tout en respectant les vôtres puisque je le dis et je le répète, je n'exprime qu'un avis personnel. Quand à me faire dire ce que je n'ai pas dit

Citation :

ces produits sont moins tappés en cheval de selle et plus showy par contre. C'est dommage selon moi.

Cela ne signifie pas que ce sont de mauvais chevaux de selle, puisque la seule façon d'affirmer ça c'est de les monter, et que ça n'est que par l'experience que ce fait là se demontre. Cela montre juste que physiquement, ils ont moins de points de force, de sécheresse que leur mère et plus de type.
Certains considereront ça comme un mieux, moi pas.

En esperant juste ne pas vous avoir froissé, parce que c'est pas mon but, et que cette fois, vous ne me ferez pas dire ce que je n'ai jamais dit.

les photos au texte vous les trouverer à ce lien !

http://www.straightegyptians.com/portrait/index.html

G H A Z A L ´ S L A S T G I F T


The beautiful bay Hanan epitomizes the term "foundation broodmare". By the renowned Alaa El Din out of the Inshass mare Mona (Badr x Mahdia), Hanan was born in Egypt in 1967. At the age of three she arrived in Germany (after two years of quarantine at the Hungarian State Stud at Babolna) with her half-sister Mahiba (Alaa El Din x Mouna) and the chestnut mare Marah (Galal x Maysa). She came to a small farm in northern Germany. "A farm which had ben purchased because of her," says Dr. Hans Nagel, Hanan's "discoverer" and owner. "She moved in, and from the first was the uncontested leader of the small herd." Hanan produced twelve foals - six stallions and six mares - and the quality of her progeny brought her fame and attention. Her ability as a broodmare made the stud of her owner - the "Katharinenhof" - a household name in the international world of Arabian horses. "Hanan's appearance was different," Dr. Nagel remembers. "Especially her long legs and the lightly arched neck. She was undeniably exotic, a type then unknown in Europe." Dr. Nagel firmly believe that the strength of any breeding stallion is inherent through his dam. Therefore it came as no surprise that the Hanan sons developed into successful sires. Jamil, Asfour, Salaa El Dine, and Ibn Galal I made their mark as sires on four continents. "A mare's greatest recognition is as the dam of a superior stallion," muses Dr. Nagel. "But we should not forget her daughters. They are the true successors of her line."


Photo: van Lent

The Hanan daughters Ghazala, Arussa and Ameera

Hanan's "true successor" was her first daughter, the grey Ghazala. Her beautiful big eyes, extreme length of neck, good legs, and noble character were the traits she was famous for. And for the fact that she was the last foal of her sire Ghazal (Nazeer x Bukra). When Ghazala was born in 1973, Ghazal already galloped on Allah's greener pastures. A sudden fall and a dream was shattered. Fory many admirers, Ghazal ranked as their alltime favourite. He brought oriental flair and the "desert touch" to Germany. Simple words must fail when it comes to describe his presence. "He moved like a dancer, he acted like a king," says Carl-Heinz Doemken, his longtime owner. "Nobody could resist his charm." Dr. Nagel gave in, too. He chose Ghazal for Hanan's second foal. Eleven months later Hanan delivered a delicate filly . "There was only one suitable name - Ghazala," Dr. Nagel remembers. This filly was Ghazal's promise for the future...


Photo: van Lent

Ghazala in her prime

"Ghazala might be considered one of Ghazal's most beautiful and prolific daughters," says Dr. Nagel. "She reigned as a broodmare supreme. Whichever sire was chosen, her elegance was reproduced in her foals." For her first foal Dr. Nagel picked one of Hanan's stablemates at Babolna, Zohair, and Ghazalas long and productive career as a broodmare began. Her first foal was born in 1977, and her last in 1992. Here's a rundown of her offspring, their accomplishments, and their destinies.


Photo: Sparagowski

Ramses Fayeka (Ramses Fayek x Ramses Bint Zohair)


Yasmeen, a grey mare, sired by Zohair (Alaa El Din x Zebeda) was born in January 1977. "Yasmeen was a wonderful filly, " Dr. Nagel recalls. "I sold her to Martin Loeber, who incorporated her into his then famous 'Ramses' broodmare band." In America she was named "Ramses Bint Zohair". Before her untimely death in 1984 she gave birth to several foals. Yasmeen has nicked well with Ramses Fayek (Nazeer x Fayza) but never produced a "superstar" foal. Her best-known daughtesr are the full sisters Ramses Shahara (by Ramses Fayek), a lovely member of the Rock Creek broodmare band and Ramses Fayeka of Hallmark Egyptian Stud in Missouri.



Nur Ad Dine (Salaa El Dine x Ayda by Madkour I)
was recently sold to Germany

After Ayda (by Madkour I) was born - Ghazala's second filly, which was exported to the Netherlands - a stallion came along that would become one of Ghazala's most durable mates. This was her half brother Jamil (Madkour I x Hanan), Dr. Nagel's young and untested stallion. This wide-eyed then four-year-old was an extremely refined and typey stallion, full of presence, and colored in a dark grey. Jamil was like some men - very masculine, but gentle and soft. He never responded to bullying, he responded to gentleness. "He really appreciated a soft touch," says Dr. Nagel. Jamil was a stallion to remember. Even Judith Forbis, who saw literally thousands of horses in her life, will never forget the day she met Jamil for the first time: "A snow-white horse standing against bright frosty snow, his great bright eyes in marked contrast to all that sparkling white surrounding him. He looked at you, and yet one sensed that 'look of eagles' as he looked beyond to the distant horizon. Jamil was a horse who knew his place in this universe." Today we all know of Jamil's abilities as a sire, but in those days every new foal was expected with great excitement. As Ghazala delivered her first Jamil filly in 1980, the corks popped: a look-alike of her sire was standing on four shaky legs and looked into the new world with big trustful eyes. "Afifa was so special and so pretty," Dr. Nagel remembers. "I would just sit in her stall, to talk to her and admire her." As she matured, she began a tour of major European shows. She succeeded at the Salon du Cheval at Paris and at the Nations Cup at Aachen. "Afifa is one of my favourites," Dr. Nagel says, "and I'm very fond of her." Unfortunately, she never produced a foal. "But she is fun to have on the farm," Dr. Nagel says. "Afifa is a very dominant mare, and the minute she sees you, she wants a treat or wants to be taken out to eat some green grass. She's a member of the family!"


Photo: Filsinger

Afifa is a look-alike of her famous sire Jamil/Jamilll

Afifa's younger sister Alifa became a reliable broodmare. But motherhood did not curtail her show career. In 1994 she won the Reserve Champion Mare title of the International Asil Cup under the guidance of her new owner, Claudia Schwarze/Germany. Her feminity and elegant appearance impressed spectators and judges alike.


Photo: Sparagowski

He came to the United States - Aziz (Jamil x Ghazala)

The bay colt Aziz was Ghazala's third foal by Jamil. Judith Forbis imported the charismatic youngster to the United States. It was planned to show him and to stand him at stud - but it wasn't meant to be. Today the gelding is used as a pleasure mount and is enjoying his stressfree days without make-up or body clipping. Not a bad life for a horse, isn't it?


Photos: Escher, van Lent

The full sisters Aischa, Nadeema and Narriman as youngsters
Click photos to enlarge!

Amrulla was Ghazala's last foal by Jamil. The mare was born in January 1987. She is still with Dr. Nagel and her destiny is to produce one excellent Salaa El Dine daughter after another. Aischa, Ahlam, Nessma, Nadeema or Narriman - close your eyes, point at one of them and you will always point at quality!


Photo: van Lent

Aisha (Ansata Halim Shah x Ghazala) in Qatar

The exotic mare Aisha (Ansata Halim Shah x Ghazala) was born in 1985. She turned her back on Europe and found a new home in Qatar at the Al Rayyan stud of Sheikh Abdulaziz Al-Thani. A desert queen returned to a desert kingdom! She has a most exquisite head and such a soft, sweet expression, that it is hard not to look at her. The judges couldn't resist her either and made her the 1997 Reserve Champion Mare of Qatar. Her son Safir (by Salaa El Dine) who accompanied her to Qatar as a baby matured beautifully and became the head sire of Al Rayyan. His heir is his son Ashhal Al Rayyan (x Ansata Majesta): He was International Senior Champion Stallion in Qatar and sired countless different international champion horses. Aisha's most beautiful daughter to date is the exquisite Darine Al Rayyan (by Ashhal Al Rayyan) who was born in 2003. No doubt about is, she is a true daughter of Aisha!


Photos: van Lent, Filsinger

Safir (Salaa El Dine x Aisha) and his award winning son, Ashhal Al Rayyan
Click photos to enlarge!

When the filly Farida (Assad by Ansata Halim Shah x Ghazala) was born, she looked like a miniature version of her mother. The same long and chiseled face, the same dark eyes, the same curved neck and slender body. At the age of six month fate struck: She had an accident and was severely hurt. A show carrier was out of the question. In 1990 I saw her the last time - she had overcome her injuries and looked very promising. As a four-year-old, Farida was sold to England but Dr. Nagel leased her back for two seasons to bred her to her half-brother Adnan (Salaa El Dine x Ghazala).


Photo: Gigi Grasso

From Morocco to Germany and then to Kuwait -
Adnan (Salaa El Dine x Ghazala)
Click the photo to see another one!

For her next foals, Ghazala was bred to Salaa El Dine, by whom she produced the stallion Adnan and the mare Nawal. Both outstanding individuals, both typey and full of presence. As a youngster Adnan was sold to Morocco but some years later - in 1996 - Dr. Nagel visited him. "I was spellbound," he recalls. "I had never expected to see such a beautiful creature." The little colt had developed into a young and more correct version of his grandsire, Ghazal. "I almost couldn't believe what I saw. But then I tried my very best to get him back as soon as possible!" He succeeded and six months later Adnan was awarded a gold medal at Germany's annual stallion show. He already has established himself as a breeding stallion and his last two foal-crops look like peas in a pod. Today he is one of the the herd sires of the Ajmal Stud in Kuwait.


Photo: Gigi Grasso

Halla (Adnan x Asfoura)

After one year time-out from the foaling stall, Ghazala produced Ibn Nejdy (by Nejdy) in 1992. It turned out to be her last and most controversial foal! Some say that Ibn Nejdy personifies the classic Arabian horse - they see in him the incarnation of a Vernet horse. They love his exquisitel head, his proud attitude, the wonderful shape of his neck, his bright spirit and his presence.


Photo: Toischel

Ghazala's last son - Ibn Nejdy (by Nejdy by Salaa El Dine)

Others say that he has nothing to offer but "just a pretty face". And that his face is not pretty at all because it's disfigured from the loss of pigmentation! However, the true measure of a great stallion is wether or not he can sire exceptional foals. In the last years Ibn Nejdy served some exquisite mares and sired already one exceptional son - Hafid Jamil (x Helala by Salaa El Dine), who turned out to be a very prepotent sire whose get is in great demand in the Middle East. Hafid Jamil is regarded by many as one of the most exotic stallions alive today.


Photo: Sachs

Hafid Jamil (Ibn Nejdy x Helala)...
Click the photo to see another one!




Photo: Grasso

...and his daughter NK Jurie (x NK Nariman),
owned by Ezzain Arabians of Kuwait


In 1993 Ghazala met an untimely death. It was a rainy day in November, cold and icy. She came out of her stall and ran to the pasture. Suddenly she stumbled, went head over, and broke her leg. It was a dark day in Dr. Nagel's life. Now it is up to Ghazala's daughters to prove that they are her "true successors".


Photo: Escher

Ghazala shortly before her untimely death

In 2002 Ghazala was honored as an "Elite Mare"
by the German Arab Horse Society.

Daniel Hölzel





Ghazala

Click images to enlarge!


Ghazal


Nazeer
Mansour
Gamil Manial x Nafaa El Saghira
Bint Samiha
Kazmeen x Samiha
Bukra
Shahloul
Ibn Rabdan x Bint Radia
Bint Sabah
Kazmeen x Sabah


Hanan


Alaa El Din
Nazeer
Mansour x Bint Samiha
Kateefa
Shahloul x Bint Rissala
Mona
Badr
Beshier El Ashkar x Badria
Mahdia
Hamdan x Mahrousa

Production Record:

'77 Ramses Bint Zohair/Yasmeen (by Zohair), grey mare, exported to the USA

'79 Ayda (by Madkour I), grey mare, exported to Holland

'80 Afifa (by Jamil), grey mare, multi-champion

'81 Alifa (by Jamil), grey mare, Reserve Asil Cup Champion Mare 1994

'83 Aziz (by Jamil), bay gelding, exported to the USA

'84 Anees (by Malik), grey stallion

'85 Aisha (by Ansata Halim Shah), grey mare, exported to Qatar, multi-champion

'87 Amrulla (by Jamil), grey mare

'88 Farida (by Assad), grey mare, exported to Great Britain

'89 Adnan (by Salaa El Dine), grey stallion, "gold medal" - German stallion show

'90 Nawal (by Salaa El Dine), grey mare

'92 Ibn Nejdy (by Nejdy), grey stallion




This feature was brought to you in January 2002 by
www.straightEgyptians.com

quand je seraie de retour de mon voyage je vous présenterer des photos des produits de HANAN et JAMIL monté et d'autre!!!!

A bientôt Arlette

www.StuderArabains.com

mario a écrit:

fedaia a écrit:

lol la façon de juger de la beauté d'un cheval ... l'attache de queue et l'oeil ... et entre?
J'avoue que je regarde plus un cheval sur des criteres de cheval de selle que comme je choisirais ma poupée barbie.
Apres, c'est une jolie jument, ces produits sont moins tappés en cheval de selle et plus showy par contre. C'est dommage selon moi.

Hep,Mam'zelle,un critere, n'est pas un tout!!Vous seriez pas un clone de Karim l'idée fixe? Puis,si vous voulez parler clichés...; Il y d'autres post.Que ce soit une bonne jument, aucun doute, suffit de voir l'elevage allemand!et ailleurs!!

Mario, depuis quand les personnes qui ne pensent pas comme toi sont "obtus" ?

Prouve-moi que j'ai tord dans mes affirmations !